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EMBARRASSED TO BE A HOCKEY WRITER
It's a bad day to be a hockey writer.
We all look pretty bad today. I mean REALLY bad today. We all look like we don't know the first thing we're talking about when it comes to the sport of hockey.
How else can anyone explain Washington Defenseman Mike Green being a finalist for the Norris Trophy as the sport's best defenseman over Chris Pronger and Niklas Lidstrom, among several others?
Look, the guy is very talented. He's got a ton of offensive skill and one of the hardest slap shots in the NHL. He's a gifted offensive player on a gifted offensive team.
But the terminology used for this award, the one many of my fellow scribes failed to even read, choosing instead to let their picks be dictated by the defensive scoring leaders, reads as follows:
NORRIS TROPHY - ("given to the defense player who demonstrates throughout the season the greatest all-around ability in the position")
Any person who chooses to put the word greatest with Green's defensive resume should turn in their Professional Hockey Writers' Card post haste.
There's a reason Green was left off the Canadian Olympic Team. As good as he is at one end of the ice he's certifiably scary at the other end.
Don't believe me? Go back and look at the goals Montreal has scored when he's been on the ice in the playoffs and watch him.
Don't believe me, wait until next week when he and fellow turnover machine Joe Corvo are deers in headlights against the Flyers relentless forecheck.
One of the reasons the Flyers beat Washington in the 2008 playoffs and Pittsburgh did the same to the Caps last season was because they forced Green to make quick decisions in his own end, many of which were bad choices.
That's why Steve Yzerman didn't want him on the Canadian team. He knew Olympic hockey was going to be akin to the NHL playoffs and the opposition was going to be coming en masse in the defensive zone. Relying on Green could have been a Canadian disaster.
Instead, he went with guys like Pronger and Brent Seabrook, far more defensively responsible rearguards than Green.
But, it's becoming painfully obvious that many of my colleagues have grown lazy and decide to vote just for the numbers they see on the leader board and take no consideration into the actual definition of the award.
The top three defensive scorers in the NHL? In order, Green, Duncan Keith, Drew Doughty.
The Norris Finalists?
You guessed it, Green, Keith and Doughty.
Luckily for the hockey writers who vote on this award, Doughty and Keith are both deserving. Not only are they top-tier offensive talents, but they are shutdown defensemen playing big minutes against the opposition's best lines.
But Green? really?
Part of the problem may be that not all of the writers, who before today I thought were a lot more clued in, were able to vote.
I've begun an inquiry into this belief, because I know not all of the beat writers in Philadelphia were afforded the chance to vote this season, whereas in previous seasons they were.
I also know that not all of the Philly writers were given the chance to vote for the Masterton Award, where we have a legitimate candidate this year in Michael Leighton.
I know that because I was one of three writers left off the Masterton list despite having voted in each previous season I've been on the beat.
However, I did vote for all the normal league-wide awards. Here is a copy of my ballot:
(1) NHL Trophies
HART TROPHY ("to the player adjudged to be the most valuable to his team") -- Five selections.
1. Sidney Crosby, Pittsburgh Penguins
2. Alexander Ovechkin, Washington Capitals
3. Henrik Sedin, Vancouver Canucks
4. Patrick Kane, Chicago Blackhawks
5. Steven Stamkos, Tampa Bay Lightning
NORRIS TROPHY ("to the defense player who demonstrates throughout the season the greatest all-round ability in the position") -- Five selections.
1. Drew Doughty, Los Angeles Kings
2. Chris Pronger, Philadelphia Flyers
3. Duncan Keith, Chicago Blackhawks
4. Nicklas Lidstrom, Detroit Red Wings
5. Christian Ehrhoff, Vancouver Canucks
CALDER TROPHY ("to the player selected as the most proficient in his first year of competition") -- Five selections.
(Note: An eligible player cannot have played more than 25 NHL games in any single preceding season nor in six or more games in each of any two preceding seasons. A player must not have attained his 26th birthday by Sept. 15 of the season in which he is eligible.)
1. Tyler Myers, Buffalo Sabres
2. Tuukka Rask, Boston Bruins
3. Jimmy Howard, Detroit Red Wings
4. Matt Duchene, Colorado Avalanche
5. John Tavares, New York Islanders
LADY BYNG TROPHY ("to the player adjudged to have exhibited the best type of sportsmanship and gentlemanly conduct combined with a high standard of playing ability") -- Five selections.
1. Martin St. Louis, Tampa Bay Lightning
2. Brad Richards, Dallas Stars
3. Pavel Datsyuk, Detroit Red Wings
4. Daniel Alfredsson, Ottawa Senators
5. Andrew Brunette, Minnesota Wild
SELKE TROPHY ("to the forward who best excels in the defensive aspects of the game") -- Five selections.
1. Ryan Kesler, Vancouver Canucks
2. Patrice Bergeron, Boston Bruins
3. Pavel Datsyuk, Detroit Red Wings
4. Jarret Stoll, Los Angeles Kings
5. Vernon Fiddler, Phoenix Coyotes
(2) NHL All-Star Team
CENTER -- Three selections.
1. Sidney Crosby, Pittsburgh Penguins
2. Henrik Sedin, Vancouver Canucks
3. Steven Stamkos, Tampa Bay Lightning
RIGHT WING -- Three selections.
1. Patrick Kane, Chicago Blackhawks
2. Marian Gaborik, New York Rangers
3. Dany Heatley, San Jose Sharks
LEFT WING -- Three selections.
1. Alexander Ovechkin, Washington Capitals
2. Daniel Sedin, Vancouver Canucks
3. Patrick Marleau, San Jose Sharks
DEFENSE -- SIX selections.
1. Drew Doughty, Los Angeles Kings
2. Chris Pronger, Philadelphia Flyers
3. Duncan Keith, Chicago Blackhawks
4. Nicklas Lidstrom, Detroit Red Wings
5. Christian Ehrhoff, Vancouver Canucks
6. Zdeno Chara, Boston Bruins
GOALTENDER -- Three selections.
1. Ryan Miller, Buffalo Sabres
2. Ilya Bryzgalov, Phoenix Coyotes
3. Martin Brodeur, New Jersey Devils
(3) NHL All-Rookie Team
FORWARD -- Three selections, regardless of position.
1. Matt Duchene, Colorado Avalanche
2. John Tavares, New York Islanders
3. T.J. Galiardi, Colorado Avalanche
DEFENSE -- Two selections.
1. Tyler Myers, Buffalo Sabres
2. Cody Franson, Nashville Predators
GOAL -- One selection.
1. Tuukka Rask, Boston Bruins
posted by In The Room at
4:12 PM
37 Comments:
LMAO what a bitter little Flyer fan. Boo hoo, poor baby. I feel for you though, must have been misery to watch that bottom feeder Flyer's team all year long. I guess that 8-2 pasting the Caps put on your poor babies left a bad taste in your mouth. I can't believe you're pimping Pronger, Ovie and the Caps made him look a pylon time and time again. And LOL at the Flyers "relentless forecheck" BWAK, let's see what you can do against a team that can actually, you know, score goals? You didn't seem to have any luck keeping them out of the net during the 4 games you played against the Caps. But hey, delusion is a good thing.
Nice of you to actually look at all the Mike Green has accomplished this year, both offensively and yes, defensively before your short sighted uniformed spout fest.
You're not a hockey writer. You're a hack. What a pathetically unprofessional load of drivel this was. I'd like the 5 minute of my life back that I wasted reading it.
Obviously you don't watch the Caps play every game. Green has a rep for not being solid defensively, but it is ill-deserved. He makes mistakes once in a while, but so does Pronger, Lidstrom, and well, every human. He has more icet ime than just about anyone. He stops player after player from the opposition, time and time again. Forget his offensive stats, he's the most deserving Norris nominee and the BEST PLAYER IN HIS POSITION.
Guess you missed the blog post earlier when I praised the Capitals and their fans... or my pre-playoff prediction when I picked Washington to beat the Flyers in the second round.
Was I a bitter little Flyer fan then?
I guss you missed all that before your uninformed spout fest.
Thanks for reading!
Read it and weep Mr. "Hockey Writer" and I use the term loosely.
Last year, the man finished second in the voting and this year, in non-points categories, he went from 86 hits in 68 games (08/09) to 133 hits in 75 games. Last season, he had 95 giveaways in 68 games. This season, 73 in 75 games. Last year, he committed 34 minor penalties to this years 27. His plus/minus moved up 15 (From +24 to +39).
In many tangible, non-points ways, he has improved, after he finished second the year before. Hard to believe he's an afterthought this year, even if our friends in the Canadian media may appear to hate him. Have they all started hating him after voting him second last season?
We value toughness, right? Did you know that Keith has fewer hits over 82 games than Tyler Sloan has delivered in 40 games? How about the fact that Keith's plus/minus fell by 12 this year (Down from +33 to +21).
I don't see him as being statistically better as a defender than Green, and it's not like he brings more to the offensive side than Green does.
Doughty hits more than Green, and way more than Keith, yes, but all three committed about the same number of minor penalties, and Doughty's plus/minus, while right there with Keith, lags way behind Green's. Would it surprise you to know that Mike Green blocked 33% more shots than Doughty did? Even though Green and Doughty gave the puck away pretty much the same amount of times, would it surprise you to know that Green took the puck away more than twice as much as Doughty did?
Is evaluating defenseman all about watching them in a single game? Maybe on that count, Green might lose a vote or two, but, over the course of a season, Green doesn't take a back seat to either one of these guys in any tangible, statistical way, offensively, or defensively.
your mis-spelling of "Chris" makes me embarrassed that you're a hockey writer.
To be fair, Green did have a lower goal differential at 5 on 5 than Keith and Doughty . . .combined.
Not sure which Mike Green you've been watching this year. But this is a pretty substantial statistical analysis of Mike Green's impact and worthiness as the "Best Defensemen OVERALL at his position" which is the definition of the award
http://rockthered.net/2010-articles/april/why-mike-green-is-the-defenseman-who-demonstrates-the-greatest-all-around-ability-as-a-defenseman.html#comments
Steven Stamkos a better center than Nick Backstrom? Credibility just left the building.
It’s all well and good to prefer a certain style of player, but to suggest that Mike Green is not even a worthy finalist is laughable. Did you not see the definition of the award? It’s to the best defenseman “overall” at their position. That’s offensively and defensively. Pronger, while proficient in his own end is a liability because he is penalty prone and he offensively, he’s at the bottom of the pack. That eliminates him entirely from the discussion. And talk about lazy. There are mountains of data to support Mike Green, not only being a Norris Trophy Finalist, but the go ahead winner. Clearly you didn’t bother to research any of it. Now that’s embarrassing.
>Pronger, penalty prone and bottom-of-the-pack offensively
You are honestly suggesting that Pronger's nastiness (to the terrible tone of 79 PIMs!) is not part of what makes him effective? He's constantly pitted against top opposition since pre-lockout, pretty damn well too. Regarding his defensive zone abilities, "proficient" is an understatement.
Mike Green is indeed scary in the defensive zone, just not in the ideal way --- "he's okay defensively" just does not make up for turnovers, inconsistent positioning (just one play, but letting Travis Moen go wide in the Caps-Habs game 5?), or his bad decisions when pressured.
And your second criticism: Prongs is certainly not as dynamic as Green (e.g., jumping into and leading the play); however, Pronger definitely supports an offensive attack well --- few blueliners possess as crisp an outlet pass as Pronger's (not to mention his hard shot). I hate to use statistics, but Prongs is fifth in scoring among defensemen: on that claim, that's pretty lazy of you, Anon. Can't wait to see how Greenie reacts to the Flyers' forecheck this time next week.
Hey, everybody, look at me! I'm criticizing a writer anonymously because I have no balls! I'm such a tough guy. Wah wah wah. I don't like the Flyers. Mike Green and the Geico cave man give me a raging boner every time their commercial comes on.
I've never read this blog before, but since Puck Daddy posted a link to it, I thought I'd come over here and take a shot at the Flyers and SanFilippo because I'm a real hockey fan (and I use that term loosely.)
What does Shea Weber have to do to get some love? You should be embarrassed having Ehrhoff ahead of him.
Love how all the Capitals fans post anonymously, which basically describes their fanbase two years ago. But hey, if its cool, I'll jump on the bandwagon, too. Rock the Red!
I only wish I could write about sports and get paid for it. Since I can't - I'll attack someone who does. And I get to do anonymously!
I have no reason to be biased, but from what I have seen in the Montreal/Washington series (and whatever I saw of him through the season), I don't see why Green is up for the Norris again. Plus/minus is moot because really, I think I could play for the Caps and end with a plus. Not saying Pronger should be there or not... just saying I don't really think Green should be. (besides, good point... I would thing Stevie Y knows a thing or two about hockey, don't you think?
Anyone who has to rely on statistics to determine their NHL awards choices doesn't watch enough hockey to be deserving of a vote. I'm a Calgary Flames fan, so I believe I can say that I'm unbiased enough to be able to evaluate the three defensemen up for the Norris objectively. I watched 30+ games of Chicago, Washington, and Los Angeles this season (I have Center Ice and absolutely no life outside of hockey), so I also think that I can credibly evaluate these players abilities outside of simply their stats.
Mike Green is a very talented offensive player, probably the best offensive-minded defenseman I've seen since the days of Nick Lidstrom, Al MacInnis, Brian Leech, or Rob Blake in their primes. He is still young and is only getting better. Defensively, he is average at best. He's not awful like Joe Corvo, but he's no Scott Stevens either.
Duncan Keith is and all around excellent defenseman. His selection to the Canadian Olympic team was unsurprising, his place on the top defensive paring was deserving. His offensive skills aren't quite as great as Mike Green's, but he is one of the best shut-down defensemen in the NHL. At 26, he is at or getting very near his prime. He's probably reached the peak of his potential and talent. Package the great offensive skill with the exceptional defensive skill, and you have a legitimate Norris trophy candidate.
Drew Doughty is a very similar style player to Duncan Keith. He's a very dynamic and exciting player to watch. His 59 points are 3rd to only Green and Keith, and it is impressive how composed he is at defense for a young lad of 20. He was one of the two best defensemen for the Canadian Olympic team this year, and earned his promotion from the 7th defenseman to Duncan Keith's partner on the top defensive unit. If he is this good now, I can only imagine how good he will be when he is Duncan Keith's age. The name Bobby Orr comes to mind.
When comparing the three defensemen and their merits for Norris consideration, a lot of factors are considered. However, one of the factors that I think is being left out is consideration of the teams that each of them plays for. Washington and Chicago are arguably the favorites for each conference to make it to Lord Stanley's finals. Both of them are at the top of their conferences in goals for (Chicago is second to Vancouver by 1 goal, Washington leads the NHL in goals by over 40). Los Angeles was picked by everyone this year to be a cellar dweller, and surprised almost everyone to even earn a playoff spot this season. Much of this success is due to the play of Drew Doughty, who leads all Kings players in ice-time by a pretty substantial margin.
While Mike Green's offensive stats are unmatched, and Duncan Keith's defensive stats are unrivaled, both of them play for Stanley Cup favorites. My pick to win the Norris is Drew Doughty due to his great success on an otherwise average team.
Never thought I'd agree with a Flyers fan, but thank you. It blows my mind that Green continually is listed as an elite NHL defenseman when he doesn't *actually play defense.*
Best.post.ever! There are way better dman out there than this joke. Team Canada was right in not selecting him.
You're right on -- in spirit. Your argument is completely valid. Too bad your rhetoric is totally overblown and unprofessional. Anyway, it probably doesn't matter what I think because I'm just a Caps fan, most likely haven't been watching hockey for very long, right? (Reality check: I grew up a Caps fan and have had season tickets with my dad since the 1970s. The Caps' old guard fan base DOES exist.)
I agree with the line about not just voting for the players with the most points for the Norris. Hilarious though that that seems to be the only criterion for the Hart (Crosby, H. Sedin, OV on the ballot). There's more to being MVP than scoring, too. Doughty was most important to his team. Quick is terrible. W/O Doughty LA doesn't even get a sniff at top 10 in West.
You might want to watch a hockey game that happened before the last week. Green has been shakey in the playoffs, but he has been great in his zone all year.
You know, people criticize Ehrhoff about his D as well...leaving off the top offensive defenseman in the NHL, one's who is more than competent in his own end (did you seen Green in the last 20 games of the regular season? Fantastic) is somehow not good all around? That's like leaving Henrik Sedin off a Hart ballot because he plays with his brother.
I was with you on this until you took Ehrhoff ahead of Green.
Look, I agree Green's a bit shaky on defense against top forward lines. That's why Yzerman didn't bring him to Vancouver:
(1) Every line for RUS/USA/SWE/FIN would be a top forward line for half of the NHL. I mean, the Fins had a third line of Koivu-Selanne-Lehtinen. The thought of Green regularly matched against those sort of guys may have tipped the scales.
(2) Did Team Canada really need offensive firepower from the blueline? No. A good breakout pass to Crosby, Thornton, Getzlaf, Richards or Toews is pretty much all that was needed from the Candian backline offensively, in addition to playing a smart game at the point. Didn't need a cannon or a guy who jumps into the rush routinely. And the counter-attacking ability of those third-liners opposing Canada was significant.
Is Green deserving of the Norris? I don't think so. But he's more valuable to an NHL squad than Christian Ehrhoff. The Canucks would make that trade any day, assuming it wasn't the playoffs.
It's incredibly ironic that there's so much hate on Caps fans for not existing 2.5 years ago, but there's a defensive mechanism in place for this guy, who seems to be basing his Norris opinion for Green on the last 10 days of hockey. So classy. So dumb. I couldn't care less what you think of the team, its players, its fans, or its chances to win the Cup, but if you want to qualify as a hockey writer, your depth of analysis for a season-based award should go beyond "LOOK AT THE LAST WEEK OR WAIT A WEEK FOR THE FLYERS TO DO SOMETHING SIMILAR!!!"
And for the record, Green and Corvo MIGHT be lost later this week against the Philly forecheck, so even ignoring that hockey is a team game played with 18 skaters, it won't matter because the Caps will be putting up 4+ goals a game on Boucher. GFY.
Yeah, Philly's forechecking was so superior that the Caps scored 22 goals on them in four games this year. I think the Caps are can't wait to get past the Habs and play a team they know they can dominate.
Btw, in those four games against the Flyers, Green had two goals and six assists. Again, the dreaded forechecking shines.
By the way, this site requires you to sign up for a Google account to post un-anonymously, which is ridiculous and a complete sellout. So for all those people whining about people posting anonymously, that's the reason.
How did YOU a vote and not someone with a brain? I'm not a fan of Mike Green or the Capitals, but to suggest he's not worth of a Norris vote is patently ridiculous no matter how you slice it.
And then you sealed the deal with that hilarious list for Selke and putting a goalie who only played half his team's games second for Calder.
If you're going to go around suggesting that an awards ballot is some sacred document to be treated with the utmost respect, maybe you ought to do a small bit of research before you cast your own.
Let us also consider the brand of hockey that the Caps play. Bruce does not base his team around a shutdown defenseman. The team plays a brand of hockey that sometimes may be high risk but more often is high reward. Will this system have success in the playoffs? Of course it will. Each year, the Caps have gotten better and that should translate to deeper in the playoffs. I must also agree with everyone who has commented on Mike Green and that all he does doesn't always show up on stat sheets. For every bad pass, there are 10 great ones. For every defensive lapse, there are 20 great defensive plays and that is all on top of him being the best offensive defenseman in the league. Maybe he wouldn't have been a good fit for Team Canada but he is a perfect fit in Washington!
before anyone starts talking about the caps playing the flyers, the caps have to actually beat an underrated habs squad, so stop with the hypothetical situations in which green is lost in his own end against the flyers, im only saying the habs are underated because they are 8th and they should be higher with the players they have,gomez, cammeleri, gionta. PLUS THEY ARE THE MOTHERFUCKING HABS
You say you are embarassed to be a hockey writer? I say, your employer should be embarassed that they employ you as their hockey writer. Your picks in the Hart, Calder, Selke, Norris (especially Pronger) and your all-pro teams are ridiculous. Do you even watch hockey or understand the sport?
This article really was a load of garbage. Please, please, next time you are filled with so much disgust, do something else. Don't write because you will sound unprofessional. Green is very deserving of this award, and god forbid other people don't think the way you do. This was, as the first commenter posted "a pathetically unprofessional load of drivel".
Your response to that same person was more pathetic than the whole article, (and when you don't think someone can get more pathetic, they always seem to surprise you)and that is an accomplishment in itself. "Was I a bitter little Flyer fan then?" Do you know how whinny and pathetic that sounds? You are supposed to be professional. So a professional response to a comment should follow.
You are "embarrassed to be a hockey writer?" Then why do you do it? Huh? What is the point of continuing to write if you will post such nonsense and irritable BS? Why are you a hockey writer if you are "embarrassed" to be one? You do realize that by writing this you made the NHL seem pathetic for, um, not listening to your opinions?
Read your own ill-concieved writing. You whine about how you were left off the list of writers eligable to vote. You whined about how players from your favorite team "The Flyers" were not included in the final listings for the awards. And your reasoning for this?
"I know not all of the beat writers in Philadelphia were afforded the chance to vote this season, whereas in previous seasons they were."
Do you honestly believe that if you, and other Philadelphia writers were allowed to vote, it would change the fact Mike Green is a finalist? Do you think other Philadelphia writers think the way you do? Do you think they will all put down Chris Pronger, like you would have? Do you think the NHL purposefully decided to leave you out because they knew you wouldn't vote for Mike Green? Do you think Philadelphia writers know best and it is because they didn't vote that the finalists are undeserving?
Stop whining. Who cares. Stop bashing Mike Green. Stop bashing the NHL for their award finalists because they aren't who you think they should be. Stop making your precious Flyers team sound unstoppable with their "relentless forecheck".
"That's why Steve Yzerman didn't want him on the Canadian team." What? I'm sorry. Are you Steve Yzerman? Did Steve Yzerman ever say anything related to what you claim he wanted?
Listen we get it. Your a Flyers fan. You hate the Capitals (You do. And you saying you don't is just to seem unbiased and to defend yourself. Your a blogger, but you are also a hockey fan. Every hockey fan has a team he/she likes and doesn't like. You obviously hate the Capitals for reasons unknown and hate Mike Green even more. You spewed hatred at them both. It was poor, pathetic, and extremely ill-concieved). But keep it to yourself. You want to know what this looked like? It looked like a bitter little Flyers fan reading something he didn't like and feeling so outraged he had to post his hatred toward whomever responsible. How are you supposed to have respect and credibility doing what you just did?
This piece of garbage writing is supposed to be done by a professional. I can't stress that enough. Keep your bitterness to yourself before you go off on your "short sighted uniformed spout fest."
Please, next time, remember what you represent before you write. If you are so embarrassed to be a hockey writer than stop writing. Please, do us all a favor and stop writing. God forbid others have different opinions than you. Your a child.
"We all look pretty bad today. I mean REALLY bad today. We all look like we don't know the first thing we're talking about when it comes to the sport of hockey."
Stop it. Please, just stop writing.
Why would a (so-called) professional hockey writer feel the need to insult his own writing in a public article? If you're embarrassed to be a hockey writer, then stop writing about hockey. Honestly, you've whined more in this one article than Holden Caulfield did in all of "Catcher in the Rye". You might as well stop writing about anything at all and start looking for other work. I think flipping burgers at McDonalds would suit you perfectly (seeing as there's nothing else that will).
Marleau and Heatley on your all-star team? When is everyone going to stop drinking the San Jose Kool-aid?
LOL...i think the Caps need to be worried about getting into the second round. Maybe their hot power play can get them in.
No one on the Caps plays D and their tending is suspect at best. Presidents trophy means nothing once the playoff start.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Hey guys, btw, the Caps lost, the #8 seeded Habs upset them.
Oh yeah, and Mike Green factored into both goals against.
[crickets]
Great post, love the ballot choices, shows real thought and care about the positions and the meaning of the awards.
As for the ignorant comments - I hope the reality of the playoffs has made some of the posters consider the valid points made in the article. Nowhere does he say Green is not a great player, just that he is not the best all around defenseman. That is a Fact
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